Latin question?

Question

Secundo obiicit ad utramque partem, ibi si autem et primo inducit, ad ostendendum quod visus videat se videre, duas rationes.
http://www.corpusthomisticum.org/can3.html
"Secondly he is answering to both question, ibi si autem, and first he introduces two explanations to show that the vision sees that the vision itself is seeing. "


I don't understand "ibi si autem". I want to know what it means, though it seems to be not important part of the sentence.

Answer 1

Hi yes it is not easy... since aut means or and autem means but and are indeclinable however autem in this case would come from autes nominative author/writer/authority





"ibis si autem et primo inducit"



In my opinion means:



there if the author/writer introduces first.



which makes sense on that text of Thomas and should be translated thus throughout the text.



hope it helps

Santiago

Answer 2

I'm only just past the basics, but I've been playing around with this a bit. (Okay, a lot; it's driving me nuts!) Please forgive my arrogance, but is it possible that the last part of your translation may not be completely right?:



"to show that" is an indirect statement, and there's a relative clause within an I.S., which would account for the subjunctive. That it's an I.S. would make "se videre" "he sees" (acc. + inf.).



As for the relative clause, IF I'm right about that, then "quod visus videat" means "that which sees sights."



And I came up with:



"Secondly, he is presenting to both possibilities....two explanations to show that he sees that which sees (sights)." (Actually, "that man sees....")



"ibi si autem et primo inducit": "if then/there, moreover, he also first introduces..."?? Forget it.



If it helps, here's the relevant section in Aristotle. It's in Part 2, I think in the second paragraph:



http://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/soul.3.iii.html



I hope I haven't wasted too much of your time. Good luck to you!

Answer 3

I can't help but think that the phrase all together is some sort of idiomatic expression...but if you just translate the words, it comes out to "there", "if", and "moreover".